TA6 Meeting

Thursday 14 Aug 2025, 10:00 → 11:00 Europe/Berlin

Zoom connection:

Zoom ID 693 6852 8032
Kenncode 345442
Einladungslink https://desy.zoom.us/j/69368528032

 

participants:
Kilian Schwarz
Stefan Wagner
Christiane Schneide
Michael Zacharias
Guenter Duckeck
Thomas Kress
Alessandro Montanari
Hermann Hessling
Sebastian Wozniewski

TOP1: introdcution
in the general meeting there were comments that there are many
PUNCH services presented in the TA6 slots and it is not clear
how they are advertised and how many people are actually using these
services and that we should discuss how to improve this.
Therefore we invited Thomas Kress from the User Comittee (who also
brought up these questions) so that we can discuss these topics with him

PUNCH2 proposal has been submitted. Now we have to see how things continue
receipt received

TOP2:
discussion with Thomas
Kilian said all introductory words already.
do we know how many users are using the developed services ?
==> we do not know, we do not track, but probably not that many people
we do not even count number of visitors on our punch web pages
the general punch web site: the clicking is counted since a few months
we do not count for results page, though
looking into that, then we might be able to see in what services users are
interested
usage itself needs to be implemented in services
services are hosted at many places
this is site related work
Harry and Olaf working on that (click counting on results page), time of arrival  not clear
should we require from PUNCH services to track users ?
ILDG metadata framework: no registration required
so they will also not track usage of metadata
it depends on policy of each community
have recomnendations or wishes
what do we want to learn from that ?
there are services to make data FAIR and publish them
but PUNCH is not in a position to mandate the policies of the broader pages
maybe we can do it for the stuff we know and can control.
The impression may arise that only the tracked stuff is worked on

Thomas: quantitative tracking, data privacies and so on
from UC it is important to know
which of the services are used, how can this be increased ?
Some qualitative answer would be nice
it is embedded in general services

usage statistics: services in gitlab, there is a standard mechanism
how often packages are downloaded

for the DFG data sheets we asked these numbers
and many can not be answered
there are specific KPIs (executions per workload, e.g.)

maybe any KPI for each service is depending on service provider

==> sounds reasonable from UC point of view
AI:
we require from each service how to measure usage
we strongly recommend, Christiane brings this to MB for other TAs ?
We start with TA6 to do that as self recommendation ?

if not enough how can we increase the number of users ?
- presentation in PUNCH Lunches
- advertisement in results page
- advertise services in workshops and conferences
- offer training events and training to services
more general approach
AI:
before next GM survey and raise such questions ?
to users: which services they are using, which services need more dev
punch general mailing list ? 300-400 subscribers
distribute survey there, what service they are using, what service
you want to learn more about, what service is missing
UC would contribute in setting up such a survey
next GM: coming up mid November at AIP
no specific agenda
half a day in hybrid mode to include users
plan agenda for general meeting
no mailing list to punch users ? general list

enable PUNCH users to advertise services in home institution ?
maybe they only need more information ?
we need outreach material
maybe deliverable reports can be used for that ? But not all there
Do we collect slides in a central place ?
Goettingen group made available some outreach examples
regular way of advertising this
Sebastian advertised this

There is a place where we collect in Intranet
AI:
we ask people to upload
https://intra.punch4nfdi.de/?md=/docs/Marketplace/Conferences.md

in Bonn we discussed exactly that
Michael has summary notes to send
how to advertise tools and services to community
many points were identical?
Important point is to advertise services we need also documentation
how to use these services ==> dev reports ?
Use report in PUNCHLetters
distribution in social media
short video of tools
tools can be advertised in science talks
has not been followed up, that is why we have it again today
docs should be required, too.
AI:
==> docs should be required
ask systematically and store these infors in central place
new page on intranet for services there we can store
or results page.

UC would be happy, then.

AI: provide for documentation ad store in central place
AI2: prepare survey
AI3: collect presentations in central place
AI4: add information about services in newsletters
AI5: punch users should advertice in their centres

general seminars ?

UC is happy ;-) (Thomas is at least))
Thomas will send minutes to UC, send also to Thomas.

TOP3:
Deliverables:
WP1:
WP1-1: noticeboard: currently being provided as service at DESY
WP1-2: physics tool: done, report published
WP1-3: continuous: done, report published
WP1-4: continuous
WP1-5: continuous

WP2:
last development request for fine granular file access being finalised
then submitted. Financed by PUNCH and HIFIS
dev report missing

WP3:
WP3-1: Reference guide for data ==> paper exist, dev report ?
==> living document, waiting for comments ==> dev report end of punch
WP3-2: reference guide for software ==> paper exist, dev report ?
==> living document, waiting for comments ==> dev report end of punch
WP3-3: metadata framework: paper exist, dev report ?
==> own solutions can not be developed, SKA stopped funding
    no continuation
    ev. of simular tools, not clear how to proceed
    proposal would be ==> to be followed up
    simply wait until end of PUNCH, then we do a safe statement
WP3-4: Effelsberg data ==> still being worked on
WP3-5: FITS/ROOT converter ==> status ?
       ==> dev report being worked on
       question by Joe: answer is no, will be addressed in dev report
WP3-6: metadata extensions (12/25) ==> status ?
       in progress

WP4:
wP4-1: survey of tools (06/26)
WP4-2: reference repo (01/23) ==> report in sync/share,
                                  finaly steps missing
                                  will do
WP4-3: data analysis examples (06/26)
WP4-5: software platform ==> physics tool, done, report published

WP5:
WP5-2: dynamic disk cache, DONE, dev report published
WP5-3: mem based computing (12/25)
       ==> develop platform according to needs
           can be provided
WP5-4: interfaces to supercomputer (12/25)
       ==> EXPLORE service, dev report missing
       progress with AAI missing
WP5-5: Co/Tardis (12/24): DONE?, dev report?
       merge request, then Harry, Christian, Olaf can make it accessible
       ==> Sebastian included comments and sent to CS and me
       ==> CS checks, KS checks
WP5-6: multi cloud (09/22): DONE?, dev report?
==> Sebastian needs to send reminder, report supposed to be done
WP5-7: JupyterHub (09/26)
WP5-8: cloud environments via API (12/23): status ? Dev report ?
       ==> continous, AUPs
WP5-10: FTS/Rucio (06/24): testbed being set up, work in progress

TOP4: round the table

TOP5: AOB

none
 

 

10:00 → 10:10 introduction and news

10:10 → 10:25 service outreach

with user committee

10:25 → 10:40 status deliverables and reports

10:40 → 10:55 round the table

10:55 → 11:00 AOB