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v3.3.5
Meeting ID: 686 5875 2992
Passcode: PoF
We will have short (~5 mins) presentations on all topics that should be mentioned. If you don't find you or miss a topic, there is a chance to discuss it in the last session of each day.
Minutes FPF Retreat
Talk of Isabell (see slides)
Axel: mention the cry platform infrastructure
Talk of Ties (see slides)
Research policy guidelines not blessed by the ministry yet
Budget will come in Fall
Proposal is 14 pages for FPF, main topic of the retreat today
Krisztian: what about the talks?
Ties: last time it was one talk for FPF, but we do not know yet
CMS, see slides
Axel: it looks self-content. How does it influence other experimental results, how is the connection to the outside world?
Freya: the links are there, we need to make more clear
Ties: ML is shown everywhere. The reviewers said we should be better coordinated in ML. How to bring all ML more together on a strategic level and sell them more
Thomas: how to motivate the subtopics and identify the connecting points among the experiments makes the story stronger
ATLAS: see slides
Christian: Belle inequality, it is interesting, but we have to be careful, theorists say we cannot measure it, so just say we investigate it with theorists. Be careful how we phrase it. I test “quantum entanglement OK, “ I test Bell Inequality” more debatable
Belle 2: see slides
Discussion:
Decision on PXD2 upgrade will be taken during the PoF V period, not before. It depends how the upgrade is going at SuperKEKB.
Very good that you point at measurements that LHCb cannot do. Projections at 5-10 ab-1, official ones, exist or will exist.
Quantum computing - Kerstin
Freya: how to address quantum computing and quantum sensing together?
Next talk
Quantum Sensing - see slides
Question about ALPSII and TES detectors
Lattice - Stefan Schaefer
Sasha asks about relations to B decays in Belle 2
George asks about theory uncertainties for future colliders, especially hadronic uncertainties, that could be reduced with lattice
Sasha on KOTO II, see slides
Is there competition on this channel? No, only this experiment
Rainer: is there competition inside DESY? If no upgrade SuperKekB, it could be interesting
FIPS (see slides)
Katja: Calorimetry could be an option. Timescale is very unclear and not possible if construction is in parallel to HL-LHC construction
Ami: is there interest in the physics?
We did a survey some time ago, the result were not very thrilled to join any of those proposals
Cigdem: but 2 years ago CERN had not approved SHIP again
Federico: we evaluated physics first
Discussion
Connections to other divisions:
ML, should be DESY-wide
ML that is established should be separated from ML where there is innovation. We do very little fundamental ML development. Put things on the larger umbrella. It is an easy way to tie with FS,
Part of a larger structure in DMA. To be worked out how it is going to be formulated. Its should be in a separate chapter. Discussion has to be in DMA first, and we as FPF we connect to ti. To be put in a central place (also 4 pages of proposal).
Cidgem: other connections are in detector technologies.
Rainer: synergies on alignment side
Ties: we should explore more how to connect FPF with other science. Freya: links are there. Map it clear, i.e. that cosmology links to the Higgs self-interactions and vice-versa (both directions).
Ties: we will need to show that we encase everything on a big story, condense it in one or two sentences.
Axel: story of stability/instability of the Universe
Cigdem: asks about the balance among experiments
Ties: is there any national interest in the participation of an experiment? A CERN funded experiment will be funded. Scientific quality and world-leading. We should make a difference, eg compared to Universities. What is the special role of DESY to play? Large-scale infrastructure etc…in addition we should have an attractive program on site.
Freya: link to MT for R&D on future colliders
Felix: just say that with our preparation we are prepared to participate in FC and to take a leading role
Katja: FS has already a detector culture, they build the detector and that’s it.
Ingrid: We as FH we want to build, but also contribute to data analysis etc. and also attract the best people.
Friederike: we should anyway enhance the collaboration with FS.
Theory - See slides
Cigdem: for the WPC, point out how it will be connected to DESY Zeuthen theory group
Ties: for Pof V we need an integrated vision how we move in the next phase. It is more than WPC
We can’t promise again what we promised last time, we need to stress the new goals
Felix Kahloefer - See slides
Georg: asks about overlaps PIs at University and funded by FPF
Ties: we have to be clever about how to present the overlap and be transparent about how the funding works
Felix: KIT is a multiplication of the FPF funding
QC in theory - see slides
Georg: what is the plot in the last slide?
Error correction, will it become good?
Stefan: it will go in steps
Ties: most of the activities are in a center funded by third-party fundings, which will run out in Pof V. What are the plans?
Cigdem: there are plans to sustain the centre beyond 3rd party funding, also from different sources. Also with an Helmholtz Recruitment Initiative.
Ties: as we have to write the proposal now, we have to be clever what we put as milestones and what we promise.
Axions - see slides
Georg: asks about the intermediate magnets, to be used by babyIAXO and MadMax
Axel: we did not come to a conclusion. 2T by babyIAXO is too little for MADMAX
Georg: axion searches for supernova axions, how lucky we should be?
Cigdem: we should have a discussion on quantum sensors in FH and also by MT
Elbex - see slides
LUXE - see slides
Able to reach the Schwinger limit at the end of POFV?
Yes, we should be able to see effects
HFGWs - see slides
Future Colliders - see slides
Juergen: asks about CEPC
Axel: asks to tell a story from HL-LHC to future colliders
Answer: high precision measurements in the Higgs sectors
Andreas: point to complementarity
Freya: all numbers at FC are very conservative and will improved considerably
Make a good link between HL-LHC and future colliders
Question about the funding of key4HEP
Freya: base funding should be available for key4hEP and detectors
Ties: there is a budget constraints and we have to agree what not to do to fund key4HEP
Scientific Platform - see slides
View from IT - see slides
Question about DMA and what is the synergy with MU and where to draw the line between MT and MU.
Kerstin asks about QC in DMA-MU
Juergen: it is bidirectional, also MU can input to DMA
Lohengrin at Elsa - see slides
Ties: how does it compare to LUXE-NPOD?
Federico: quite different, lower masses, difficult signature
Moritz: when is start of data-taking?
Ingrid: around 2030
Isabell; why finely grained calorimeter?
Ingrid: sensitivity
Kerstin: is it decided that DESY contributes?
Ingrid: very much interested that DESY collaborates, myself only n R&D for now
Detector activities in FH
Axel: is there a similar table for calorimeters?
Katia: never a small scale thing
Cigdem: discussion about SHIP. They need two calorimeters, they are also looking also for Silicon technology. We could get in touch officially with SHIP, it is not true that our expertise does not fit SHIP
Katia: shows slide and asks if SHIP schedule has shifted, as for now it overlaps with HL-LHC
Lohengrin needs resources but people on MAPS are interested. Needs also interests in the physics case.
Axel asks about the critical infrastructures at page 4. Ties: we have to maintain DAF and test beam.
General discussions
Freya asks how to proceed with new ideas.
Ties: we have milestones. For new ideas, as far as the budget is not more than 20% there is flexibility, but we have to sacrifice something else.
Ties: we have seen broad spectrum, we need to start converging. We need to justify DESY involvement if we start a new project.
Ingrid: connections to new Universities?
Ties: 0th order, do things that Uni cannot do. There is always a gray area..
Krisztian: it is the size and infrastructure
Ties: danger that if our program is not strong, some resources could go to PETRA IV, which is such a big project